Nov 05 2008


Filed under bad voicemails…


“…one more time. Sorry we have to converse this way, but so be it. I would be happy to have breakfast or lunch, whatever and some day talk in person. I’m certain I had a reaction to what you referred to as your low level anger and irritation and I’m not surprised how deep it goes. You know, you’ve done a lot of things over the years and let me tell you my first reaction is always love and care for you and concerned about how you are feeling about a lot of things. I think over the years, for many years, I have been very supportive of you, but sometimes I hear you talk and get concerned about where it comes from and sometimes I get a little bit hurt and angry because you’re chronically disappointed about one thing or another and I’ve listened to you for years, not about me only, but about your brother, the program and about people and I’ll be honest with you, as your friend and your colleague and you are always being critical of someone and I hear it a lot Bill and I really do for you because I listen very closely to what you say.


Bill, I don’t. I don’t feel any need to talk about what happened 10 years, 13 years ago, I don’t remember anyone slamming you (hahahaha), I’m sure it was the case, I have no doubt about that, but I think you are off base with several things, one of which is the kind of support I’ve given the program regarding groups and infrastructure. I think you’re way off base….


You’ve got your opinion and I’ve got mine, but I think anyone who knows me would disagree with you about my commitment to the small groups, ongoing groups and the infrastructure. Have I been involved as you have been in the groups? No, I’ve moved away from that so I could do other things, but it just feels like sometimes that you’re just not going to be happy with certain things, and if I’m one of them, I’m one of them.


And I would like you to look at the whole gestalt of our relationship and realize that I’ve done some very good things that I rarely hear about from you and whether I put your evaluation on the bottom, I don’t remember that, I really don’t, maybe I did, but you have a tendency to be critical of how tacky I was for doing that and to use words that are really very pinching…


So that’s where I am . If you want to discuss it, we’ll discuss it then. I want you to know I am sorry that you are chronically disappointed about me, or anything about the program, but you know, that’s just the way it is, and I always welcome your honesty, you know that…


I will always meet with you and welcome conversation because I have a lot of love for you and your family, I always have. It’s been a long time Bill, stay in good health.




“We usually don’t talk this much in a month as we have over the last 24 hours.


When I left the last message to you about aggravation and stuff, please understand that I have a lot of care for you as a person. You and I have had a very long, meaningful relationship and I just needed to share with you some of my concerns, so I hope that’s the way you heard it.


I also called at a time quite honestly, because I’ve thought a lot about it, now that I’m driving home after a man that I’ve worked with off and on for over 15 years, left a message that was difficult to hear, put a lot of work into this man, that he’s going to leave our work, but not in a way that is healthy. I think I was troubled by that, I really do.


In any case, you know this work that we do is very much in the heart and trenches, so if we need to discuss anything, let me know.


I don’t need to discuss it anymore, but if you want to fine. I just thank you for taking the time and effort, for (which) I have always very deeply appreciated.


So, with regards to the rest of your life, good luck with the soccer, you’ll let me know about the case and all of that.


We’ll be in touch Bill. Take good care, have a nice weekend.




“…got your call and email and of course, it’s very, very disturbing and painful that (ahh) my (ahh) referring to you as being chronically disappointed (ahh) would cause you to do this (my resigning).


You were the one who was angry at me initially and all the stuff about whether I’m in support of the program and you’re leaving because of something I must have said and I’m very disappointed and very, very upset (ahhh) mostly because of my care for you, our friendship and the work we’ve done (ahh).


You know, I’m willing to listen to that message again, but I remember I just responded with my own truth.


So, with that said, I am to have lunch with (Board member) and of course, this will be discussed and I am sorry with the action you have taken.


I appreciate that you talked (in my resignation email to leaders) about the dream and not what happened between you and I. I don’t know if you have done that with anyone. I have not.


And in terms of getting clear, of course, I want to get clear with you. I don’t feel the need to have it supervised or structured or facilitated. I’m surprised by that. I think you and I have every bit an ability to put out on the table whatever happened and feelings associated with it.


So, I mean, you know, do I want to sit with the council (ahhh) that doesn’t even feel good to me. It really doesn’t, but I will do what needs to be done, as I always try to do.


So, I hope you have a different dream tonite and this can be worked out. I’m making myself available to have a conversation about it and get clear with it. You can tell me what you feel and I can tell you what I feel because that’s the way these things get cleared.


You don’t have to take your mitt and go away (ahhh). I really don’t think you have to and even about your dream about grandiosity and shame (ahhh), if you think I shamed you, (hahahaha), it would be mutual. I can feel that way too, but I told you my truth. The best way to reach me over the weekend is….


I call upon us, you and I, to sit down, over dinner, take a walk, I don’t care, just you and I and I don’t need anybody else for an intervention either to be honest, I really don’t.


Sorry that this has happened, but it did (hahahaha). It happened for a reason, we always know that.


# 4


I’m staying late in the office, I just got your email so obviously one of the differences between us is I choose not to email everybody when we talk, you do, and I want to tell you how bill, with both of us in the wisdom years, our memories are not intact, you know, because I want you to know very clearly that when all this started, I talk to you, probably on Wednesday, yet it was a Wednesday, and I offered to come to your office on Friday, March 7 Saturday, March 8 or Sunday, March 9 and you came back to me and said very clearly and appreciated the sense of urgency.




I was willing to demonstrate because obviously in the recent voicemail. It suggested that you are important to me and I had to come back to you and tell you that the Friday, March 7, I would not be able to meet because I had a personal conflict and would not be able to meet that. ahhh yes I offered you the seventh, eighth and ninth, but I had to go to that personal conflict, but I did offer you Saturday, March 8 Sunday, March 9.




You told me maybe the 8th would work, but you have to work it out, so you know what! Stop it already, bill! Okay, I did immediately respond. It was after it that you couldn’t do it that weekend, but we couldn’t find a time that I couldn’t do it for three weeks or so ahhh I couldn’t do it for a variety of reasons.




So please, you know what! If you’re going to email some of your stuff, you know what, do it as accurate as possible, because it’s just not true.




I didn’t want you to wait 3 to 4 weeks. I wanted to originally meet immediately the next weekend. And if you’re going to be nasty like this, I’ll start telling you and other people that that was not accurate.




Okay, now I really do want to meet with you ahhh, which yes, I’ve already made very clear to you, but I don’t have any need, any need whatsoever(!) to replace any kind of other event or experiences with the victories board…




I just want to talk with you about the CD and our relationship, and in fact when I come to talk with you, I have no intention(!) of going into everything about victories of a heart…




It’s not my intention ahhh…  My intention is for you and I get clear with each other, clean with each other, accountable with each other and hopefully, hopefully, and I mean this sincerely, Bill, at the bottom of my heart resolved with this already!!!




The issues that you have ahhh with victories, well, you’ll do what you have to do with that, okay ha ha ha!!!




Now with that said, and that’s the truth, because I feel it… Here’s the deal, I’m not going into every event I have coming up, but suffice it to say I truthfully can meet with you next on a late afternoon on Friday, May 23, come to you, the first time I’m in town, bill, I come back on the 21st, on Saturday 24th, Sunday the 25th, got a wedding in Ohio in the next week.




I’ll come to see you on the morning of Friday, June 6, seven or eight. So those are the times, bill, we can of the 23rd, 24th 25th. Those are the dates that I can do it.




I’m sorry we have to wait ahhh, but don’t, ahhh don’t be too critical of that. Okay, because you’re the one who told me you couldn’t do certain times, and I’ll honor that.




So, the ball is back in your court. If you want to email me the time and email everyone else, go ahead, but I think at this point, you can just call me or email me and let me know.




And again, I’m willing to come to your office. So let me know the best time that we can meet.




The best to you, your wife and daughter.




# 5


Staying late at the office so after listening to those two messages which, in this case, I will keep, ahhh, after those messages, it’s apparent to me that my attempt to see you, to call  you at home last night to speak with you, you know, whatever I do. It’s never going to be good enough for you, ever! Ahhh,




So I’ve gotten to the point. Finally, when if I was wrong about Saturday, March 8 and Sunday, March 9, my apologies, ahhh. I didn’t blame you for not being available, you make so much! of so little! with that, ahhh.




I’ve talked to nobody about it, about who is right and who is wrong, but you need to do this, so at this point, Bill ahhh, I offered six dates May 23 24th 25th of June 6 78, so you don’t want to meet with me!, Bill, you want to say I won’t meet with you!




So that’s what you have to do I accept that and I will hold to the fact that I offered those dates ahhh, , that I call you in good faith, in that you ahhh, you know, I’m on your list !! Ha ha okay ha ha Ha




Whether it be your brothers, or whoever I am on your list and you’re not going to take me off.




And I wish you well…this is my truth and you, ahhh, your truth is not the truth. Ha ha ha, okay, as my truth is not the truth ahhh. It’s both true and it’s also both false.


I’ve not heard  you, once in a long time, take ownership of what might not be false, ahhh, of what , might not be real and right in your place… and I’m wrong and that’s all you need to do is to make me wrong, so Bill, I’ve gotten as far as I can. I made the offer. I called home. I talked to (name) for a moment, ahhh,




I really wish you well and it makes me sad you’re going through a hard time and in my heart, and all I could talk about is I wanted to be somebody who ahhh, didn’t hurt you and wanted to support you and you’ve got it that I am the devil, and a lot of devils, and you are not going to change your mind. Because you’re tenacious, you know that, you’ve always been like that, it’s one of the things that I always liked you, but now I don’t like it! Okay, now I don’t like it, and I don’t want to play more.




So you can send me emails or you need to do.




You know, bill I will be very available if you ahhh reconsider and want to meet on one of those dates… we can meet in my office, or I will come to your office, but don’t keep calling or send me scathing emails!




I haven’t sent you many scathing emails, I haven’t even sent you a scathing voicemails, since the first one, which I will listen with you!




So that’s it. Okay. I don’t want to hear from you anymore about it and it will be what it will be and I sincerely, sincerely! wish you well and wish you no harm, as I do to all the Martins.



I highlighted the admission he sent me a “scathing” (his words) voicemail. It’s really the fist time he acknowledges I might find  voicemail #1 offensive. In voicemail #2 he tries to rationalize why he left the offensive voicemail by suggesting it was something I did.

I thought it would be resolved immediately with him apologizing. We were set to meet the very next weekend, but he cancelled, then began to play a cat and mouse game. It would have been so simple for him to just say, “I’m sorry. I lost my cool and shouldn’t have left that voicemail. I hope you will forgive me.” It would have been done. I knew him and understood he felt like he did a lot for other people, like me, and did not get enough credit. Whether that was objectively true, I knew it was the way he felt. He left me an offensive voicemail and should have simply apologized and we could have moved on.

Instead, he turns the tables, suggesting I also harmed him and we needed to meet to “get clean with each other…”, which he means he tells me how I offended him, I tell him how he offended me and we agree that we were both responsible. This was not accurate.

He never apologized, perhaps didn’t  believe he needed to, avoided meeting with me, and set an arbitrary requirement that we listen to the taped voicemails together.

Eventually, the Board told him to do mediation with me, which is what I wanted. He finally met with me once. I told him in advance not to apologize during the meeting as it had gone beyond the need for an apology.

We met, he was cordial and charming, as always. He actually asked if he apologized, would it make a difference. I told him no and asked him if he had some health problem or something else going on. He denied anything was wrong. I had made it clear in my communication with others about this I felt it necessary for him to engage in some type of evaluation/therapy. I was not the first person he had treated in this way. There was a pattern, and he had subverted the letter and spirit of the 2004 Strategic plan along with the other principal leaders. His ease in doing these things needed to be confronted. I have no doubt had there been some type of internal conflict resolution process within the organization and this conflict been handled professionally, a later personal tragedy might have been avoided.

He called me the next day and left a voicemail that he would never do mediation with me and followed it up with a letter from his attorney stating the same thing.




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